Welcome to the Wisdom Lifestyle Money Show. I'm your host, Scott Dillingham. Today, I've got Nick Messina with us from Team Goren REMAX, and then I've got Cas with us from Cas Design Studios. Welcome, guys. Thank you.
Kass DiPasquale:Thanks for having us.
Nick Messina:Thanks for having us.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. No worries. So today, we wanted to have a different perspective on real estate renovations, specifically focusing on real estate investors. A lot of investors buy properties that need renovations, or they they have a property and they wanna to do renovations to them. And the thing is a lot of challenges with investors is they lack the time.
Scott Dillingham:I find they're really busy and they don't really want to get their hands on with the renovations. But then a lot of times we find that they make some big mistakes, right? That, you know, loses them some equity and potentially lowers their resale value. So this is why we wanted to have two experts on from different angles, but both can touch on the renovations. So here we are.
Scott Dillingham:So welcome, guys.
Kass DiPasquale:Thank you.
Scott Dillingham:Let's talk about some of the worst things that an investor can do when they're renovating their home. I'll start with you, Nick. What do you find or what have you seen that was really ugly that lowered someone's value? Like, what did you see that investors should avoid at all costs?
Nick Messina:I
Scott Dillingham:find a lot
Nick Messina:of the time people tend to navigate towards what they think might be the best situation for their home. Okay. Things like painting to their liking, updating to an extent, again, to their liking. And when it becomes more unique, it's harder harder to sell. I think it's better to go modern, more generic to open up to the public and get as much traffic as possible.
Nick Messina:So I would say anything that really is a unique situation and anything custom to the client is probably not a great idea.
Scott Dillingham:Okay. No. I like that. And what do you think, Cass?
Kass DiPasquale:Honestly, Nick nailed it what I see is they're putting their emotion into it. It's what they like and what they want and what they're gonna gravitate towards, which is fine if you were keeping the home. But if you're renovating to sell and you're renovating to flip or invest or anything like that, you wanna keep it geared towards the masses.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah.
Kass DiPasquale:And, you know, I you know me at this point, Scott. I do like the unique
Scott Dillingham:things. I
Kass DiPasquale:like to go that route, but those are the times where you're gonna wanna follow the trends.
Scott Dillingham:Yep.
Kass DiPasquale:Right? And appeal to those wider audiences ultimately.
Scott Dillingham:Yep. Now, so then that brings up another question, right? Because a lot of people, I've heard that as well, You want to be neutral, right? And then so you see all these beige homes, right? That's so ugly in itself, right?
Scott Dillingham:Just the base. Builder beige. Yeah, it's so ugly. So what you know, I'd like to hear from both of you, but what have you guys seen or what do you recommend your clients do to keep it neutral but but more lively than just beige everywhere?
Nick Messina:It might sound a little bit standard, but I tell my clients a nice fresh coat of white paint goes a long way. It is a little bit neutral, is a little bit standard, but it does open up the possibilities for people to come in and it helps them envision what they would want to put and what they can see themselves being in that home and doing with it, right? So a nice white fresh coat of paint
Scott Dillingham:definitely goes a long way. Nice. What do think, Cass?
Kass DiPasquale:I mean, virtually want to say very similar things and I think it depends what the goal is in the moment because a lot can be done with staging a home as well. So when you keep the renovations and the bones of things as neutral and bright and airy as people say, then a little bit the better. But a lot can be done with just decorating with plants. So like I'm sure Nick knows, it's the game of depersonalizing and taking away a lot of things. And so you still don't want it to feel cold.
Kass DiPasquale:But I like to decorate with plants, and staging can go a long way.
Nick Messina:Yeah. No. A 100%. I mean, you want to definitely keep it, you know, staged, looking well, at the same time, like you said, depersonalized so that people can envision their family in the home. But at the same time, you want to keep that balance of it looking good, right?
Kass DiPasquale:Yeah, 100%. Take time.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah, thanks. Now, right now, in life, everything's so expensive and a lot of people want to cut their costs. So how can we I know we've only really touched on painting, but how can we have an investor do some work but really cut back on the cost of doing the work? Do you guys have some suggestions your clients or investors have done?
Kass DiPasquale:I'll take this one. So so I I got a couple of things in in this realm of things. So I just did what did we call it? How to maximize your profits, your ROI. Investors, we did it in the investor hub that LensCity hosts.
Kass DiPasquale:We've got a whole online community. And part of when I was doing that event, what was coming up is the actual dollars and cents. So I want to answer this question in two ways. Right? Sure.
Kass DiPasquale:There's there's a way from a material standpoint to, you know, get the cheaper. You can get LVP, luxury vinyl plank, as opposed to hardwood. You'll save, like, $5 a square foot. That's a hefty amount when you're talking investing. But then there's the the other way that I wanna take things.
Kass DiPasquale:And so this is a little bit of a plug, though, because I was asked to do another event for short term rentals, and I'm actually gonna have some numbers. So there is an actual mathematical equation on what your current rent is, what your new rent would be, and taking into consideration all of the money that you've spent on the renovation as well. So that's to come. I don't have that answer right now, but yeah.
Scott Dillingham:Fair enough.
Kass DiPasquale:Yeah. Something to keep in mind.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. And I gotta just say about the vinyl plank, like we did it in the one office over there. I've done it in the basement of my rentals too. If there's ever water, it's pretty good. Like you gotta take it out to dry under it because you don't want mold to grow under.
Scott Dillingham:But beyond that, like, you can just relay it back down. You don't have to throw it out and redo it all.
Kass DiPasquale:So The product itself. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Dillingham:You just need extra because if you've cut along right? You've cut along the wall, let's say, and then when you put it back together, there's gonna be spots where you're like, I'm missing I don't know. You can't get it. So you gotta have extra for that too. But but super cool product.
Scott Dillingham:Mhmm. So So then what would you suggest? Let's turn this to a seller because you can both answer this. But let's say somebody's selling their home and they want to renovate. And I know a lot of times the best advice is don't do anything, like leave that up to the buyer, but let's say it needs absolutely have to do something.
Scott Dillingham:What do you guys recommend as some key renovations that someone can do to maximize the value of their home? So from a real estate standpoint,
Nick Messina:I would say if we're talking about rooms specifically, I would say kitchen 100%. I think kitchen is one of the major factors that clients look at when they enter a home. On average, you could honestly renovate your kitchen $10,000 20,030 thousand dollars and you're looking at about 75 to a 100%, return on that investment.
Scott Dillingham:Okay.
Nick Messina:So kitchen, always, I would say, definitely a good idea to look into. Mhmm. Bathrooms, I mean, I guess it depends on really the condition of the bathroom and how many you have in the home. I would say light fixtures, adding a vanity, making it look nicer. You're you're sitting at around a 70% return on your investment for the bathrooms.
Nick Messina:So I think of all the rooms, bathrooms and kitchen are probably your two highlighted ones to renovate. And then, obviously, you know, if you can add an extra amount of bedrooms at, like, a low cost, I would definitely encourage that as well.
Kass DiPasquale:I like that. 75%. That's a solid number.
Nick Messina:Yeah. A These are reported REMAX numbers.
Kass DiPasquale:We will cite the sources. But you're right. And so what I can add to that is when it comes to the kitchen, you don't have to go ripping it out, though. Right? So, you know, ten, twenty, 30, sometimes you can get upwards to sixty, seventy, eighty
Scott Dillingham:Yeah.
Kass DiPasquale:Just touching a kitchen. And so you can repaint those cabinets. You can get them rephased. So if you are selling, there are ways to keep things keep your cost low Yeah. Just to appeal to the masses, we were saying.
Kass DiPasquale:When it comes to the bathrooms, my rule of thumb, so I'm curious what you think here,
Scott Dillingham:Nick Okay.
Kass DiPasquale:Is if there's at least two, then as long as you have one that's updated, pretty much top to bottom updated Mhmm. Then the other one you can get away with like the quicker fixes.
Nick Messina:Yeah. No. I I completely agree with that. As long as you have one really nice one where the family's like, you know what, we can use this one and if push comes to shove we'll go and use the other one, then yeah, 100.
Kass DiPasquale:Okay, cool. So I'm on the right track.
Scott Dillingham:That's cool. I even spoke to an appraiser one time and I don't know if this is still the case, this is maybe two, three years ago, but he said that if somebody does their backsplash, he'll usually add on $5 of value to the home. I don't know about you guys, but a backsplash doesn't cost $5. You know what I mean? But just the impact that it has on the overall look of the kitchen is so drastic that an appraiser's willing to add $5.
Scott Dillingham:Now again, that might have just been this appraisal. It could have been that specific property, but that's what he was suggesting, which is pretty cool.
Kass DiPasquale:Yeah, good to know.
Scott Dillingham:Cool. So then what would you guys say that you would recommend for okay. So I wanna do renovations. Let's say I've decided I'm gonna do my kitchen and bath. What would maybe the first steps be?
Scott Dillingham:And Cass, this might be a better question for you. But, like, a lot of people just dive in, and I think that's where a lot of mistakes happen. So what would you say? I mean How can you help?
Kass DiPasquale:The e the easiest is just having the overall vision. Having the overall vision, having the inspiration, a way to communicate what you're thinking and what you're after to the people who are actually doing the work. And even if that's you and your significant other, you guys don't think the same. Men and women don't think the same. And so even if it's you guy you guys that are doing the work yourselves, you wanna keep as much money in your pocket as possible, just try to be on the same page, and having visuals is important.
Kass DiPasquale:So Canva is free, guys. That's how I do all my mood boards. Pinterest is endless on the inspiration that you can find on Pinterest. So even just having reference photos is is the best. That's definitely your best bet is having the overall vision.
Kass DiPasquale:Yeah. And then putting together a spreadsheet for the actual numbers, like having an amount that you're willing to invest into the home and the property before you sell it. But then that's where I would bring in Nick and a real estate agent is, okay. Hey. I'm thinking of doing these updates.
Kass DiPasquale:This is what it's valued at right now. What is it valued at after these updates?
Scott Dillingham:Yep.
Kass DiPasquale:And and that homework before you swing any hammers.
Scott Dillingham:Yep. The homework. No. I agree. And from the lender standpoint, right?
Scott Dillingham:Because that's obviously who I represent. You can build these renovation costs into your mortgage, right? Obviously, you're selling, that's a different story. But you can build all that in too, and a lot of investors don't realize that. So they end up out of pocket or it limits their growth because they could be using that money for another purchase.
Scott Dillingham:So, yeah, building all the renovations, right? OPM, use other people's money, and then you can grow. But let's talk back to the ugly renovations. What are some of the ugliest renovations you guys have seen since we're here talking?
Kass DiPasquale:So, like, the absolute don'ts. But I wanna know more because you're you're in more people's houses than I probably am. What are some big don'ts?
Nick Messina:I mean, definitely don't go with really outstandish colors on the walls. Like, I've been through a house where the the walls were painted neon green and neon pink every other room. So I would say things like that, don't do. Definitely stick with the neutral colors.
Scott Dillingham:Was that the video game house?
Nick Messina:Yeah, that was. As far as other ugly renovations, I've seen, I mean, I think layout is extremely important. I've gone through houses and you're thinking like, wow, like this is a beautiful home, beautiful space. But the way that they laid it out to make more rooms and create extra space is just, it's awful. Like you need to make sure you're doing, you're allocating the spaces correctly to maximize not only the vision, but what you can do with that space, right?
Nick Messina:So putting up walls in spots where there shouldn't be, definitely not a good idea. Yeah.
Scott Dillingham:Makes sense. What did you say, Cass?
Kass DiPasquale:So, I mean, how can I answer this? Repeat the question.
Scott Dillingham:Okay. Let me ask you a different way because you literally help clients design the renovations.
Kass DiPasquale:Yes.
Scott Dillingham:So let's word it the other way without maybe mentioning your client's name, what was maybe a renovation that you had suggested something and the client went on their own and did it their way And it worked out really ugly.
Kass DiPasquale:So and I don't wanna say that it worked out ugly only because I was on the project and I wouldn't I wouldn't let that
Scott Dillingham:happen. Okay. Fair enough.
Kass DiPasquale:But I think the way that you portray what you want, which again comes down to visuals and vision, I did have this one client, she was an absolute sweetheart, love her to death. The way she had presented what she wanted wasn't what we ended up with. And what what ended up happening is she just needed to see it and then to be like, yes.
Scott Dillingham:Mhmm.
Kass DiPasquale:So what was my point here? You might have to edit this part out.
Scott Dillingham:Well, I thought it was ugly. What was
Kass DiPasquale:But it wasn't an ugly. Okay. Let me let me think of let me think of an ugly. Let me think of an ugly. I I just go back to the lime green bathroom.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah.
Kass DiPasquale:So That's fair. But it wasn't a project I worked on. Who's one that took it and just destroyed it? Oh, okay. I got a good one.
Kass DiPasquale:So I always have to come at it from a modern level of And I did have this one client, and she was an older woman. And it turned out great, but she want everything to be pink and, like, old lady pink.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. That's too much.
Kass DiPasquale:Right? But it was their space. So it was it was their home, and so I really am of the two
Scott Dillingham:Like a Barbie home.
Kass DiPasquale:Well, it wasn't it wasn't like that. It was like old lady pink. So it was right? Like a blush. Yeah.
Kass DiPasquale:And I did my best, but I think in the end
Scott Dillingham:Did it smell like perfume everywhere?
Nick Messina:Yeah. Like the old original wartime home pink?
Scott Dillingham:Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Kass DiPasquale:Right? Where it's like this baby pink. And I I struggled with the overall vision. But at the end of the day, she was happy. So that's the difference between where most of my clients I am promoting.
Kass DiPasquale:Do it uniquely. Do it your own. But I also have that level of, from an investor standpoint and from the seller standpoint, you don't at all wanna have any personality on it. Warmth? Yes.
Kass DiPasquale:K. But no personality. Yeah. But I will go right back to this lime green bathroom. I have to.
Kass DiPasquale:So there was this house that was being sold, and the photographer was in there. And they showed me a picture of the basement bathroom, and it had a vessel sink on top with butcher block countertop, and the bathroom was lime green. And then it had, like, some sort of pattern tile going on in the bathroom. So it was, like, butcher block, lofty, but then Mexican ish with the pattern tiles. And then there was like this very old traditional vase in the corner.
Kass DiPasquale:So mixing the styles or no?
Scott Dillingham:Yep.
Kass DiPasquale:That's, I think, where the ugly comes into play. You're mixing too many styles. You're trying to do too much
Scott Dillingham:in one space. I've seen some ugly houses too. I've seen so the two weirdest things for me was there was one house. There was a toilet. I I guess you could say it was it kinda was like the living room maybe, but why would there just be a toilet there?
Scott Dillingham:I don't know, but there was. So that was weird. And then another one was all painted black with like, red paint to make it look like blood was dripping down. Oh. It was weird.
Kass DiPasquale:That's creepy.
Scott Dillingham:It was really weird. So I was like, I'm not buying this one. Even though it's paint, it's still the thought of it. Right? It's like
Kass DiPasquale:Well, because I think it poses the question of what else? What else am I gonna find in this home? What else could have been done? That's that's how I would be thinking
Scott Dillingham:about that. And that's exactly the point of this. Right? You don't wanna do those renovations because even myself realizing that it could be just paint, it threw me off so much that I didn't want to buy the home. Right?
Scott Dillingham:And that's what we're talking about here is not doing those things that are just so drastic that, you know, you push people away.
Nick Messina:I'll add another example to that, actually.
Kass DiPasquale:Let's hear it.
Nick Messina:So I actually went through a beautiful house recently. Like you walk up to the the the front, it was beautiful. Like I'm expecting beautiful staged inside, everything. I walk in with my clients and there's what do you call that? Like dead trophy animals.
Nick Messina:Everywhere. All over the walls is like moose, wolves. I'm looking at my client, they're like, yeah, we're a little bit scared. And I'm thinking like, yeah, for such a beautiful home and to have that displayed, you're cutting your traffic in half. Because you're gonna have a good amount of people come through there and they're going to think like, oh yeah, this isn't for me.
Nick Messina:Meanwhile, without all of that, you would be able to really see the potential of that home, right?
Scott Dillingham:Yeah, so if you have weird things, weird colors, clean it up, right? Because they could have taken that down and put it in storage or something, right?
Nick Messina:And that just comes back to what Cas was saying. Like, we love uniqueness, but when it comes to selling the property, you want people to be able to envision what they're thinking. Right?
Kass DiPasquale:Yep. I do have a quick question for Nick though, because I've heard this before. So you were talking about a hot pink pink paint and I'm talking about lime green and while to live in it, no, you don't really want that. So there's a couple of things here. I hear that when people buy a house, they really won't repaint.
Kass DiPasquale:So they walk in, they're not gonna, if it's already neutral, more than likely they're not going to paint for another three to five years. But then I've heard on the flip side that if a buyer is going to all of these houses, that it's good to stand out and not have everything super neutral. So maybe there is a random basement bathroom that is hot pink or lime green so that they're when they've looked at 15 houses in a day, they're thinking, oh, what about that one that had the crazy hot pink Yeah. Bedroom and it stands out? So do you think that that's a good thing or a bad thing?
Nick Messina:I mean, like, you're you're definitely not wrong. I can see the point where it's, like, out of sight, out of mind. Right? So if you have something unique that stands out, you're gonna be in mind and people are gonna be constantly thinking about that property. Right?
Nick Messina:Mhmm. The same time, I think it really boils down to whether you're looking to move in from an investment standpoint to flip the house, or if you're purchasing it to move in with a family.
Scott Dillingham:Okay.
Nick Messina:If you're on the family side, I would say you are right. They typically don't paint over it right away. If it's an investment standpoint, typically they do. Okay. But I definitely see the point where you stand out a little bit.
Nick Messina:You are in the mind of, you know, the traffic that comes through. Whether that's a good or bad thing, I guess that really depends on the individual.
Kass DiPasquale:Okay.
Scott Dillingham:And what we will be doing after this, you can go to our merch store that we're gonna open up right away. What we're do is we're gonna have 20 feet tall cassis. Okay? So it'll go up the wall and onto the ceiling. If you want to make your house look unique
Kass DiPasquale:Oh my gosh. Like a custom vinyl sticker? I am so up for this.
Scott Dillingham:Yes. You can get the custom vinyl sticker on our on our merch site. And it's better than wallpaper. And then nobody will forget your house and it will help it to sell. So that's perfect.
Kass DiPasquale:There are no guarantees.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. Yeah. No warranties. Yeah. Install at your own risk.
Scott Dillingham:But no. That's that's awesome. So okay, so I know we're gonna wrap it up here just because we like to keep these short so someone can listen to it on their commute to work or whatever. But any other tips or final thoughts to an investor or maybe even a homeowner who might be listening to this that wants to really get into renovations? Or they're local, right?
Scott Dillingham:And they want to tap into using you guys. Give your tips and then give how they can get in touch with you.
Nick Messina:I would really say it's, and I think I can speak for all of us on this front, it's so important to allocate not only your money, but your time when it comes to, fixing up a property. It's super important to consult professionals like myself and Cass when it comes to these kind of things. You don't want to be wasting your time, wasting your money money on improvements that are not gonna return on the investment and are ultimately not gonna bring in the traffic you're looking for. So I think I can't stress that enough. You have amazing people like the two of us.
Nick Messina:Definitely use the resources at your disposal.
Scott Dillingham:Yep. And just to wrap up your thought here, Nick. So how do people reach out to you if they're looking in Windsor Essex County and they want a realtor that specializes in knowing the value of a good renovation?
Nick Messina:Yeah. So I'm actually a very proud member of Team Goren REMAX Care. You can reach out to me directly. My number is (226) 782-4552 or any of the other amazing agents, excuse me, at the office, 519799949. And also, we work really closely with Cass, so I mean, definitely reach out to her, and I'll pass that over to you.
Kass DiPasquale:So you had asked a a question though. What was your last
Scott Dillingham:Just if you had final tips and then how people get in touch with you.
Kass DiPasquale:So something I had said on the event that we did in the hub anyway was to build your team. So that's one of the big things. Having the vision and then building the team who knows what your overall goal is. That's for sure my my one biggest tip. And you can find me on Instagram, cast design studio, k a s s design studio.
Kass DiPasquale:And, yes, you can call me too. (226) 881-2194. But You can find me at Len City, all over talking to the agents and things like that. The last thing I want to say about building your team is a quick little story about someone who thought they were going to cut out the electrician, and they wired the whole house and did it wrong. Right?
Kass DiPasquale:And we had, you know, got into just the do's and don'ts, and it is don't think that you can do something for cheaper. That's where building your team, knowing that they've got your your end goal in mind, which is, hey. This is a flip. This is a rental. We're selling this.
Kass DiPasquale:And just having everyone on the same page is super important.
Scott Dillingham:No. That's perfect. And a quick final update before we go. Actually, the merch store sold out of cast stickers. It already sold.
Scott Dillingham:So next, we'll be featuring Nick as well. Okay? So that'll be on there. We'll put up a link for that.
Kass DiPasquale:Sale right now.
Scott Dillingham:But thanks for listening, guys. We'll we'll see you next time.
Nick Messina:See you.
Kass DiPasquale:Thanks for having us.
Scott Dillingham:Cool. Mhmm. We did. We should have opened a merch store just for fun.