Okay. Who wants to learn how to own multimillion dollar real estate properties like the wealthy? And guess what, guys? It does not take as much money as you think, and that's the key. I am Reese Traino for the Vanguard team at Manor Realty.
Rhys Trenhaille:With me is a very accomplished mortgage broker, which is actually hard to say. Most of you guys are local, but Scott and his team are national in scope and focus heavily on what we do, which is income property. Scott, thanks for joining us today.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. Really glad to be here. Thanks for having me, Reese. Really appreciate it.
Rhys Trenhaille:Yeah. So I'm not gonna take credit for this one, guys. This idea for this podcast and this subject is all Scott's. And he's right because I'm doing this, Scott. I'm buying these bigger properties now, and I'm not using a lot of my own money to obtain them.
Rhys Trenhaille:And you're right, we need to tell our respective client bases that this is the case right now. So, I mean, what do you wanna say about it?
Scott Dillingham:No, it's true. Listen, I mean, we get a lot of people from the whole spectrum of buying their first home to doing $300,000,000 projects. And I think when you make that flip from residential to commercial, that's when you really see the money because you can control commercial more, right? We know it'll be worth more if we raise the rents. Right.
Scott Dillingham:But there's just so many creative strategies. Like we're doing a deal right now, right? Where the buyer has his money for the mortgage, but he's getting potentially a VTB, right?
Rhys Trenhaille:For the sake of the audience, I'm gonna cut you off. When you're saying commercial, you're also talking about multifamily residential.
Scott Dillingham:Yes. Multifamily residential, retail, all that stuff. Yeah.
Rhys Trenhaille:Okay. So guys, I wanted to be clear on that because I do multifamily heavily. I would never call it commercial, so it was interesting to hear stock calling it commercial. So yeah.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. Yeah. It's more from the lender standpoints because lenders say four and under is residential, and five or more Right. Is commercial. So because I've got my lender's hat on, I'm picking up the bad terminology here.
Rhys Trenhaille:No. No. It's it's fine. It's just, you know, I find right now, if you compare how much you have to put down on a commercial plaza versus how much you have to put down on converting that commercial into residential, or just buying residential, now with CMHC programs that the federal government are providing, you can really obtain these things inexpensively. And if you're used to doing renovations, I got good news for you.
Rhys Trenhaille:There are some really, really good programs now to decree that missing residential density.
Scott Dillingham:Yep, absolutely. No, you're right.
Rhys Trenhaille:So do you wanna talk about specific examples or what do you wanna do?
Scott Dillingham:Yeah, so first I'll discuss the strategy, right? Because we have to give people some info on the hook, right? We have to explain to them. So what we're seeing people do, is we're seeing them develop properties. Now, whether that's a brand new property or the rehabbing an existing property like Reese was letting on.
Scott Dillingham:So we're financing up to 95 percent of those construction costs. So then they get the loan, they keep it for a short period of time, for a little bit of appreciation, a little bit of profits, and we refinance again and we literally pull out all our money. So they've got nothing left in the game, and they're getting amortizations up to fifty years, which is just massive. So it's super cool.
Rhys Trenhaille:Okay, 5%, when you say 5%, people don't Not all people are mathematically inclined where they're gonna go, Wow, only 5%. Guys, think about it this way. You can obtain a million dollar building under these programs for $50. Are you kidding me? And what it is, you have to understand that the federal government, to put it in layman's terms, and this is why they're giving you fifty year amortizations and everything else.
Rhys Trenhaille:They're trying to give you an offer that you can't refuse. Sorry about the cliche, but they're giving you an offer you can't refuse, because we need housing that badly. So they're saying, in layman's terms, what the programs are saying now is, Hey, if you're going to build apartment building units, or you're going to convert a building into apartments around public transit, right? Around buses, basically, then here's our money, and here it is super cheap. Right?
Rhys Trenhaille:What is it right now? Scott, about 3.5% roughly interest rate?
Scott Dillingham:It does depend on the size of the loan, right? We're seeing three and a half, sometimes a little lower than that, but we're seeing three and a half to four ish, I would say, is what we're seeing.
Rhys Trenhaille:You see this? It's the world's smallest violin. You know, if you gotta pay 4%, boo hoo. So, okay, so then you're talking about the fifty year amortizations versus a twenty five year amortization. I mean, that's not helping you pay down the principal of your mortgage too much in the first ten years, but it does really juice up your annual cash flow.
Scott Dillingham:That's right. That's right. And if I could control the mortgage world and pick whatever it is that I want, I'd actually pick an interest only mortgage so that I never pay it off, because I don't wanna pay it off. Do you know what I mean? So the fifty year in my mind is not a bad thing.
Scott Dillingham:Now, somebody who's debt adverse, obviously they might not like that, but you have to think with the investor cap and think of your cash flow, right? And you wanna look at things long term.
Rhys Trenhaille:Yeah. So guys, the young guns watching this in particular, it's hard for you to see fifteen, twenty years in advance. But I'm now a half century old, and I've been investing in real estate since I was 22. And what you will find is, it doesn't take long for your property that you bought. Like the one I'm sitting in right now, I bought it for $755,000 back in 2014.
Rhys Trenhaille:And yes, I've done a lot of, you know, value add to it. It was already in good shape, but I, you know, I improved the I improved the building over time. This $755,000 building is now worth $2.12200000.0. And that's almost triple, right, in ten, eleven years now, eleven years. So when Scott's saying, hey, I'd rather just have a mortgage that's interest only, some of you are gonna go, are you nuts?
Rhys Trenhaille:Man, I wanna own my buildings free and clear. Well, if Scott is interest only and he would have bought this building, and he's an interest only mortgage at, say, $700, and the building's now worth 2.1. Scott's made 1,400,000.0 just owning and running the building for a decade. And I'm telling you guys, a decade goes by like that.
Scott Dillingham:Yep.
Rhys Trenhaille:Right? This is this is long game. This is not Bitcoin, crypto, you know, tulip craze du jour. You know, 80% of the world's wealthy get wealthy through real estate investment, but it does take time. You won't.
Rhys Trenhaille:All the hard work that you do in the first five to seven years that builds up your real estate portfolio long term, those are the key years, because you're not gonna see it as you're grinding. And your car might be five or ten years older than your buddy's Camaro that he just bought. Right? And he's got that good looking grill in the passenger seat, and you're still grinding, right? After about five to seven years, you got about 2,000,000 or $3,000,000 in equity, and that's where Scott and I can have a lot of fun now taking that equity and 10 x ing it into bigger properties.
Scott Dillingham:That's right. And even like one other point too, and I didn't realize this when I first started investing, I discovered this much later, some really wealthy, you know, tax smart people. Yeah. They said, look. So we'll use your example.
Scott Dillingham:So let's say I have this
Rhys Trenhaille:Is that their official name, tax smart people?
Scott Dillingham:I think so. I think so. They got
Rhys Trenhaille:I gotta look those people up. I need people like that. Yeah. Sorry.
Scott Dillingham:So imagine a loan of 700,000 that I got ten years ago, I'm paying interest only on it. Now, obviously again, interest only is not really here. You can do it on a couple residential deals, but like that's it. So let's say ten years later, I wanna pay myself, right? And I wanna give myself $300 this year.
Scott Dillingham:I can remortgage, get up to a million dollar loan, so it's still tons of equity, but that $300 is mine. I don't have to pay CRA a dollar of tax on it, because it's all part of the package. So you can essentially pay yourself in the future without any taxes, and that's how you make and grow faster. So it's super cool.
Rhys Trenhaille:Yeah. These are a lot of the tricks when we talk about how the wealthy do it, guys. We've learned it as we've accumulated our respect of wealth, right? Me and Scott, I mean, and Scott's old enough, he doesn't have any hair left.
Scott Dillingham:That's right.
Rhys Trenhaille:I said to Scott today, I'm having a bad hair day. And he goes, At least you have hair. Right?
Scott Dillingham:That's right.
Rhys Trenhaille:And I said back to him without missing a beat, At least you're consistent. I gotta work on it. Make it a little, know, I got a haircut coming up tomorrow, Scott. We should have been shooting this two days. Scott doesn't even know what to say back to me, and I just gotta keep going.
Scott Dillingham:About hair. Yeah. Like, when people talk about hair, it's like, you know what? I've been out of the loop for twenty years, so I know what to say here.
Rhys Trenhaille:Okay. That's this is not what yeah. This hair is not what you the follicly challenge is not white people. There's there's other YouTube videos for that. So I what do you wanna talk about next?
Rhys Trenhaille:I mean, I can wax poetically about my bigger projects, but that doesn't help people today. I mean, do let why don't we talk about sort of like the I mean, the smallest stuff that people would do if they wanna do, you know, faster equity gains in order to get there faster to that point where we can 10 x. To me, would be house plus additional dwelling unit right now, where you buy a house, you add the additional dwelling unit. Great cash flows. The cash flows, if you do it right, typically beat duplexes.
Rhys Trenhaille:And then you can refinance and just keep doing one of those after another. So that's if you're just starting. But those are easy enough for Scott and I to do. You just gotta give us a shout. One of my teammates, Jason Balston, that's what he eats, sleeps, and breathes, is selling you a house that's viable and profitable to add the additional dwelling unit.
Rhys Trenhaille:What's the next step up? Maybe we should talk about the next step up. To me, it's either taking advantage of these missing middle properties that there's not a lot of buyers for. And guys, you won't realize this, but there's tons of people for the smallest stuff. And then there's actually quite a few people for the bigger stuff.
Rhys Trenhaille:But in the middle, and you're talking about like six units to 12 units, there is nobody. There's barely anybody working that that niche.
Scott Dillingham:So Yeah. And that's that's where I was gonna go next. Is is that that
Rhys Trenhaille:There you go. Let's talk about it. Sure.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. So you consider places somewhere in Ontario, but you consider places like Alberta for an example. Alberta, this more of a did you know, but Alberta will let you build up to eight units on any lots. I mean, it's gotta meet the measurements. Right?
Scott Dillingham:But you the sizing proper and you can do eight, you don't have to apply for permits or anything, right? So they know within that range, like you said, the six to 12, they know that that's needed. So that's why they're allowing that, right? And I know Toronto's talking about increasing, but they're back and forth, but increasing the amount of units you can build and stuff. So we'll have to see, but I think you're gonna find, like you said, they call it the missing middle.
Scott Dillingham:There's actually a conference in May about this in GTA, but it's about building these units. And I think, in my opinion, I think building is better than rehabbing, but both have their uses.
Rhys Trenhaille:What's preference? A And 100 I'll let you get into the Alberta stuff in a sec. I know what you're doing out there. In Windsor, what we're just starting to do now is prefab, because prefab that is quote unquote crack the code. The vast majority of guys building prefab, they're still more expensive than traditional build, or they're the same price.
Rhys Trenhaille:So who cares? You're not helping me. Right? Mhmm. I can do it the regular way.
Rhys Trenhaille:I can build traditional with a guy that's been doing this for thirty, forty years. You grab Luigi and build this for me, Luigi, and there's your six blocks. Now what I found is over the last sort of six to twelve months, two companies have hit our radar in Ontario, and both of them are in small town Ontario. And I know why. It's cheaper.
Rhys Trenhaille:The labor's cheaper. The land's cheaper. Building your factory is cheaper. So these guys have figured out how to streamline so much. They figured out as well, Scott, you know when they put two modules together?
Rhys Trenhaille:That interior wall becomes a double wall. And what I noticed with the one company is they've now figured out how to put them together, not double the wall, in other words, waste my they're getting material. Yeah. Yeah. They're getting these things done quickly.
Rhys Trenhaille:They got a rail line right into their factory. They load it on the factory car, they ship it to, you know, like Windsor, for example. They're focused on Southwestern Ontario. K. They have oodles of experience, and they will assemble you a six plex for, get this, about $224 a square foot.
Scott Dillingham:That's awesome.
Rhys Trenhaille:It's insane. Is so much cheaper now than traditional. So these guys, we're just starting to work with them with a couple of our investors. We don't want to go crazy with it. Right?
Rhys Trenhaille:We wanna make sure that what they've done in other communities, for other people, they can do for us down in Windsor. But as soon as we get that checked out, anybody watching this video, if you've got about a 100 to a $110,000, these guys are gonna build us a side by side semi detached home, technically, with two additional dwelling units per side. It looks exactly like a six plex, but technically, it's a side by side house with two additional units per size. They encourage you. They'll put it on a concrete slab for you, but they encourage you to build the basement.
Rhys Trenhaille:So we had it quoted. Sadie Morrow on our team, she married one of the top concrete guys in Windsor, Josh. And Josh quoted us $36 for the basement. Right? With a wall in between.
Rhys Trenhaille:The reason why that becomes important is you plop your six plex on top of that, you wait for the dust to settle almost literally, You rent it all out, and then you have our planning consultant, Jackie, go back to the city and ask for a minor zoning variance, so you can build two more units in the basement. I'm telling you.
Scott Dillingham:Love it.
Rhys Trenhaille:My god. And we're looking at the projected profits. It's beautiful, Scott. It's beautiful, man. You know?
Rhys Trenhaille:So that's kinda where we're going with the missing middle. And guys, remember, there's two ways that you make money. Right? There's only two. You either make life more convenient, or you solve a societal pain point.
Rhys Trenhaille:That's it. Mhmm. That's it. So what we're doing by adding the missing middle is we're solving a societal pain point. We don't have enough housing.
Rhys Trenhaille:And if you if you look at the housing, lots of people are adding additional dwelling units now to houses. Awesome. Lots of builders are doing what they know. They're going out into a bean field, and they're building a bunch of houses. Great.
Rhys Trenhaille:There's guys like me, and other big entities that are building apartment buildings at scale. Right? Like, my projects downtown are 67 units, 44 units, 70 units, and now we're looking at doing 500. Right? So there's guys like us doing that.
Rhys Trenhaille:But missing middle. Who's doing six to eight units at a time? Know of one guy in Windsor that's doing it regularly. What? We're 450,000 people down here.
Rhys Trenhaille:One guy.
Scott Dillingham:I know of just a handful too, but you're right. There's not a lot.
Rhys Trenhaille:Right. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but I barely know anybody building six plexes. Like, there's nobody. And there's info lots sitting all over Windsor proper that you could build these on. Like so, yeah, whether you're doing traditional build or you're doing prefab oh, and by the way, Scott, here's the interesting one.
Rhys Trenhaille:The other prefab company isn't really a prefab company. They're building bricks and sticks, but in the factory. And then they're shipping it down and assembling it. So it's a traditional build, but in a factory.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. That's cool.
Rhys Trenhaille:And they're about to triple capacity. They're literally gonna build two more. They're gonna expand their they're gonna triple their their factory floor using the new federal money. And it's funny because and I guys, I don't wanna get political, but when you see in the budget and you hear Carney, he's always shooting his mouth off, oh, prefab, prefab. We're gonna put more money into prefab.
Rhys Trenhaille:I'm like, why? Prefab's expensive. And now I kinda realize that those cats know more than me. They know that this is getting cheaper than a traditional build. They know you can build over the wintertime, and you can just keep going because you're indoors.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. Love it.
Rhys Trenhaille:Right? So I'm like, because I do know, vast production guys, it doesn't matter what it is, and this is why a government always gets involved early in a technology. Like solar panels, everybody's complaining, oh, we're putting too much money to solar. The reason is, is every time you can double the capacity of whatever widget you're building, whether that's a house or solar panel or whatever, every time you can double production, the price comes down 30 percent. So this is now why you're gonna see the government put lots of money into prefab, because as prefab scales up, the cost per square foot is gonna come down by 30%.
Scott Dillingham:And if it's already cheaper, right? You said what? $2.25 a square foot?
Rhys Trenhaille:These guys are already figuring it out, man. Know? If you want every let me put if you want the fridges, the stoves, you want the landscaping done, you want if you want everything done, it's still under $300 a square foot. But why would you? Like, you can grab cheaper people off of us to do the landscaping, the foundation.
Rhys Trenhaille:Right? Concrete work. Yeah. So you you would
Scott Dillingham:want to Even if it was 3%, but they can make it 30% cheaper. Right? You're you're back down to
Rhys Trenhaille:200 You're you're back down to $210,100 bucks foot. Yep. Even if you had them do the whole shebang, which you wouldn't do. Yeah. Because you'd be throwing money away.
Rhys Trenhaille:Yeah. Crazy, man. Sorry. I got on an exciting tangent there, I think, a little bit. But if anybody wants to do that, reach out to us.
Rhys Trenhaille:And then Scott is doing something very similar, but in Alberta, and he's doing something that we're not doing, which is fragmented ownership. So if you don't have that $110 I just mentioned, Scott, I mean, what are you guys doing to solve
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. So there's so many opportunities. So I mean, at the end of the day, if you hear something here and you like it, reach out and we'll present things to you as they come. But essentially what we're doing is we're building anywhere from eight to 94 units as we speak across multiple projects. And because this program, and I don't wanna get too far ahead of myself here, but the program, it mixes a bit of affordability with energy friendliness and or accessibility.
Scott Dillingham:So that's how this program, that's what you have to look at for the 95% loan to cost on the construction costs. So the reason I wanna bring this up is because on existing properties, it's hard to finance that because you're buying that building's problems. And if it's not set up for the program, you gotta put money into it to retool it and, you know, we get it going.
Rhys Trenhaille:It's certainly more complex.
Scott Dillingham:Yes. Where brand new, you can do it to scope, right? You already know So what you're that's why I love your six plex, but to lead into this, so if we're financing 95%, we have builders and the whole team and everybody's on the ground, we only need to have 5% of those costs built into the deal. Obviously there's more, because we gotta wait for draws,
Rhys Trenhaille:Yeah, so closing costs, legal
Scott Dillingham:there is more than 5%. So I don't wanna just say it's just five, but ultimately what we're doing is we're seeking investors with capital that want to invest in these new development projects, but maybe they lack the experience or the time to do it themselves. So then they can invest with us, they get permanent equity position, we build these properties and the goal is to refinance it,
Rhys Trenhaille:give them
Scott Dillingham:their money back and keep them on as a permanent holder of like an owner of that property.
Rhys Trenhaille:Right.
Scott Dillingham:So that's essentially what we're doing, but that can be done everywhere. It could be done on your future projects, it could in Ontario, like it doesn't have to be there, ultimately that's what we're doing. And I think the cool thing that so many investors are looking for that next thing, but if you don't have the experience to build 94 units, you're not gonna do it. So that's why you partner with people and do it. So we're definitely seeking capital on that, but just to talk about it, Like break it down and talk about your projects that you're doing.
Scott Dillingham:Do you wanna go over one of your projects and exactly what you're doing, so an investor could see how they could invest and grow with you?
Rhys Trenhaille:Yeah. I mean, as far as what we do guys, I mean, I don't do a lot of fragmented stuff like Scott. We probably are going towards creating a Southwestern Ontario real estate income trust, but we're not there yet. You know, we're focused on going building by building right now. I mean, I could talk about my missing middle projects, like the five unit, six unit kind of stuff, or I guess eight unit stuff, or I can go off to big buildings, doesn't matter.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. Well, we talked about the sixes. So, yeah, why don't you talk about some of the developments that's that's going on on here? Yeah. Maybe a little bit about how you even got into it really too.
Rhys Trenhaille:Oh, jeez. How do I get into what? Into the how do find these buildings?
Scott Dillingham:Yeah.
Rhys Trenhaille:So, I mean, you know, we we already owned a building, a 30,000 square foot building we bought. I owned a portion of it for years. Nothing was going on with it. I was a minority shareholder. I didn't have a lot of control.
Rhys Trenhaille:I end up doing a shotgun clause. I end up obtaining the building with one of my investment bank partners. So, guys, once you get established, then you have a portfolio and a track record. And this is like, you know, it's at least five years. Right?
Rhys Trenhaille:For me, it was over twenty five years. And then when you're approaching sort of investment banks that are looking to put their money somewhere, you can joint venture with them. But I mean, you gotta have a pedigree. They gotta know that you're gonna, you know, handle their money properly, right? But you can find that rich dentist, and do a smaller version of the same thing.
Rhys Trenhaille:But at any rate, the unit that we're doing an eight unit on right now, it was a duplex originally, hundred years ago, a hundred and ten years ago. Its last manifestation was as an off a law office. Okay. And now, we've converted that into eight residential units. The city of Windsor wants you to keep commercial on the main floor, so what we ended up doing was designing two live workspaces.
Rhys Trenhaille:So the idea is to rent them out to people that can put their wares, like their paintings, or whatever in the front, and they can live in the back. And then the other six are just, you know, one or two bedroom apartments. And then the reason we bought that place is we wanted the parking lot at the back. Right? So as of recording today, we're only what day is the date?
Rhys Trenhaille:Tuesday? Three days. Three days away from six of the eight units being complete and ready to Nice. To rent out. Yeah.
Rhys Trenhaille:So ESA, the electrical safety authority is going through today, and then once they're ready for occupancy, we bring in the occupancy permit people. These things, guys, five years ago, used to suck to get to. It would take forever to get through the bureaucracy. It was a shambles. This particular project I'm talking about, we submitted our original plans and package, full package.
Rhys Trenhaille:About a hundred days later, I hadn't heard anything, and I had to talk to the head city planner about something else, Tom, at the time. And I said, Hey, Tom. I said, Yeah, what's going on with my six ninety one? And he goes, Oh, I don't know. I don't see it in the computer.
Rhys Trenhaille:Let me take a look. He called me back next day, and he's mortified. He's like, Risa, I think we lost your file. Think about that. Hundred days.
Rhys Trenhaille:Think about how much a hundred days costs when you're carrying this place empty. You just lost the file. It doesn't exist. Right? These days, that doesn't happen.
Rhys Trenhaille:These days, you're now uploading to the cloud. And why this becomes important when you can upload to the cloud, is before you had to submit the same document five to six times to all these different bureaucrats. It was all fragmented, different departments, they don't talk to each other. As soon as it's on the cloud, the coolest thing that happens is, A, you only have to submit your documents once.
Scott Dillingham:Okay.
Rhys Trenhaille:B, 90% of the time, can tell which bureaucrat is not doing their job. Yep. And is holding up my file. Now, the city gives me a development assistant coordinator. So if you're doing any developments at all, even these missing middle projects, you can get a DAC.
Rhys Trenhaille:So now all I have to do is reach out to my DAC and go, hey, so and so is not doing their job. Literally, twenty four to forty eight hours later, that bureaucrat has done their job.
Scott Dillingham:Love it. Love it. What an improvement.
Rhys Trenhaille:We are moving so much faster now. Before, guys, literally, all you needed was one of about four notorious bureaucrats on your file, and you were screwed. And everybody knows the names. I don't need to say them. And if they watch this, they know who they are.
Rhys Trenhaille:They know. They know who they are. So now those four bureaucrats, as soon as I see them on the file, I just keep an eye on. Right? And if all the other bureaucrats that are doing their job, and they're checking off, checking off, checking off, don't even wait.
Rhys Trenhaille:I just go, Luke, this guy's gonna hold me up again. So guys, they still have a long way to go, but I even tell them, I think you guys are halfway to where you need to be, but it's an awesome half.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. It's much better. So, those listening, why was this parking lot so important to you?
Rhys Trenhaille:Oh, because we got the 30,000 square foot building next door, we need the parking, because we're adding 44 residential units to that one. So, yeah. So we need all the parking we can get. So we bought the little one, because it's got a parking lot at the back for 30 parking spots. Wow.
Rhys Trenhaille:Yeah. That's awesome. Does that really help? See?
Scott Dillingham:All strategic planning. Yes.
Rhys Trenhaille:Yeah. It's like pinky in the brain, man.
Scott Dillingham:Know? That's it. That's it.
Rhys Trenhaille:So The pinky in the brain guys from Detroit, by the way, The Voice.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. And for those that are hearing this that are like, okay, I wanna do this. There's also like, if you're not going with CMHC and doing the 95% financing and whatever, there's many other programs available and the costs are pretty fair for the construction and you can get these projects done as well. So don't think like if you're not going with CMHC, this is not for you. Literally like, there's always a product for when you're developing these types of things.
Scott Dillingham:But developing I is truly where it makes the most sense because we have investors everywhere. And you probably hear it like, we've been blessed because Windsor has been one of those areas that you could buy anything and it would cash flow. And now that's kind of going away. You can still find cash flow, you gotta be a little more strategic. And other areas, you can't really buy cash flow, depending of course.
Scott Dillingham:So when you build something like this, you have much more control over it. We don't have to worry about rent control, if it's brand new, which is nice, right? Because then you can raise the rents to whatever market is as opposed to what the government dictates. So that's that's great. And then you have control over the building.
Scott Dillingham:Do you know what I mean? Like, you can set it up however you want. So it's it's
Rhys Trenhaille:Yeah.
Scott Dillingham:You know, pending guidelines, of course. But like, you have the power. So I love it. I love it.