Welcome to the Wisdom Lifestyle Money Show. I'm your host, Scott Dillingham. Today I have a very special guest with us today. She's one of our employees, Jillian Irving. She specializes in tons of investment properties, student rentals, and she's actually got a really unique strategy that she's gonna share with us today.
Scott Dillingham:So I'm excited to hear about it. So welcome Jillian.
Gillian Irving:Thanks so much for having me, Scott. Look forward to chatting all things real estate with you.
Scott Dillingham:Okay, so usually I like to start off with hearing about some of your background. So could you let us know, Jillian, how you got started into real estate investing?
Gillian Irving:I think of myself as an accidental investor, actually. I really, I got started just really on a whim. I'd started reading books about real estate investing. Everyone's read Rich Dad Poor Dad. But I read that book back in 2008, just before the big crash.
Gillian Irving:And honestly, it never occurred to me that you could buy a house and get your tenants to pay for it. That's how unsophisticated I was. And one day I went for a run, and I ran past this really amazing house in a great neighbourhood in Toronto called Lesleyville. And I came home and I told my husband, I said, Guess what? We're buying a house.
Gillian Irving:And he's like, I thought you went for a run. Anyway, we bought that house, and it was the beginning of this really long, love affair I've had with real estate ever since because we bought it without me knowing much. And it became clear pretty quickly that if I really dug in to real estate investing and got a coach and learned specifics, that I could take that very rudimentary knowledge and turn it into something pretty big, which is why I did. So I bought that house back in 2008. I've refinanced it several times to buy more property.
Gillian Irving:And with that money, bought student rentals in Hamilton, which have ended up being like the mainstay of my portfolio, which is student rentals. But that was the beginning. Was just a whim one day.
Scott Dillingham:It's incredible. And it's so amazing how much how many investors have started because of Robert Kiyosaki and reading Rich Dad Poor Dad. That was what triggered me. I read it same thing. I was like, man, I got to do this.
Scott Dillingham:And then I joined. He had a course in Canada that he ran through a third party company. And I signed up on it, then I started investing.
Gillian Irving:I think once you understand the numbers and how it works, the fear that you might have about these big investments vanish because you can see the power of appreciation, mortgage pay down, and and cash flow working together. And you're like, wow, I wish I knew this sooner. Anyway, we can only start when we start. But, yeah, it really has been great for us.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah, and to your point there, honestly, personally, I found the very first one to be the hardest because say you had a vacancy and it was a single family house. You have to pay that out of pocket, right? But once you get a couple, then they carry themselves. So even if there is a vacancy, you don't even notice it. So really, in my opinion, the first one's the hardest one.
Gillian Irving:But that's like anything, Scott? I'm Always when you start something new, you're learning a new skill, or you're starting up something totally different, you're always gonna have those nerves around it. And so I guess really, just getting over the hump of the first one, because you're right, it just gets easier afterwards. Because nothing really surprises me anymore, that's for sure. Especially with student rentals, I've seen it all, honestly.
Scott Dillingham:Yep. And I don't know if I've told you this before, but that's why I'm so excited that you're part of our mortgage team as well because we specialize in working with investors. That's our, like this podcast is about investing in money and this is what we like to do. And the fact that you had that background in investing, just, I don't know, we're excited to have you.
Gillian Irving:I really do feel like as a mortgage agent investor, I get it. I really understand the challenges that investors go through when trying to get financing. Understand the invest, like just landlording part of it. I really feel like I've got a bit of experience in all these different areas. It does help.
Scott Dillingham:Does for sure. Because again, like I know that's what our clients are looking for. They want that expertise. They don't want to just go to somebody who just approves that individual transaction and then they don't set you up for the future. Yeah.
Scott Dillingham:You know, that's
Gillian Irving:kind of
Scott Dillingham:how we look at things and running through even some of your most recent applications, right? The clients are looking to refinance a purchase, we're planning it all out for them. So it's super cool that you have that experience. So I'd like to talk about student property investing. So I know a lot of people would buy student rentals pre COVID and everything was fine and dandy.
Scott Dillingham:There was plenty of lenders to do it. How are you finding that space now?
Gillian Irving:So during COVID, students pushed back on their landlords a lot. We're hoping for refunds and rebates and all sorts of stuff. So each landlord handled that differently. But there are a lot of landlords who had never had any sort of hiccups in this space before. And I think they got spooked by the market.
Gillian Irving:And many of them sold their student rental properties in the pandemic. So what we've seen now as a result of that is there is such a demand for student housing. I have never seen anything like it. Like in the how many years have I been investing in that market? A long time now.
Gillian Irving:And it's usually just pretty standard. And I've never seen demand like this. I would say rents have gone up by probably 40% compared to last year. There's just nowhere for them to live. So all of a sudden, this is, like, such a hot strategy, I would say.
Gillian Irving:And it was always cash flow positive anyway. It was one of the strategies that were easier to cash flow now. It's even better than ever. So it's great. It's a great strategy to consider if you're trying to buy like, a single family type home in Ontario, but can't figure out how to get the numbers to work.
Gillian Irving:If you're near university or college, I encourage you to encourage everyone who's listening to consider the student rental strategy. It's actually pretty easy, and it's not as complicated as you'd think. And it's been really great in terms of cash flow.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. Now one of the negatives that I've heard, and hopefully you've got the answer for this, I'm sure you do because you have the experience in it, but is a lot of people are scared of the student investing because they don't want the tenant or students to have all these parties and damage the properties and stuff. What are some tips or tactics that you have to sort of minimize that?
Gillian Irving:Yeah, I think everyone saw that movie Animal House, right? I think that's the meme that sticks in everyone's mind. Just imagine these insane parties in the living room couch ending up on the front lawn or in the pool or something like that. And the truth of the matter is, Scott, that nowadays, got your parents are cosigning these leases. And so you're really not at risk for any big damage because you've got cosigners who are going to, one, pay for damage if there is any.
Gillian Irving:I've just never had a party. I've never had damage at all on any of my properties. I vet my students pretty well. They know the house rules. But the truth is, really the only downside to student rentals is that there's a little bit more general wear and tear because there's more bodies in your house.
Gillian Irving:But I've not had any issues with damage that we haven't been able to, like, really easily recapture either by the students themselves or by a quick phone call to mom and dad. Think the students really don't want you to call their parents, right? I think they just behave knowing that their parents are on the hook as guarantors.
Scott Dillingham:So that's smart. So then there you go. So that would be the tip. So have the parents on as guarantors for all the student leases.
Gillian Irving:Absolutely. And so that's it's the safety mechanism in terms of getting paid rent. I mean, you think about it, you have the student who's agreeing to pay rent, then you have your parents as the guarantor also agreeing to pay rent. And that's like a mechanism that doesn't exist in any other rental strategy where you have two people on the hook. And students also, like when they get to university, they've been working hard to get there.
Gillian Irving:No one is going to put their living in jeopardy when they get to university. They've worked really hard to get there, so they're not going to let their they're not going to risk getting evicted from their home, for heaven's sake. So it really is a completely different like, just such a complete different population with just very minimal risks in terms of rental payment and damage and all sorts of stuff like that. Yeah. Guarantors for sure as a trick.
Scott Dillingham:I love that. I can see that totally working in any market in Canada really. So it's really cool.
Gillian Irving:Yeah, that's great.
Scott Dillingham:So cool. So let's talk about financing. Now I know personally I know it's tougher, but can we dive into some of the options, you know, COVID? Because pre COVID, it was pretty easy. What's available to an investor now that's looking to finance this?
Gillian Irving:To find student rentals? Look, it depends if you're buying or refinancing is tricky, right? There's only a few lenders that will let you refinance. There are definitely ones out there. If you're buying a property, it's easier to buy a property that's not already a student rental that you can modify than it is to buy an existing student rental, would say.
Gillian Irving:Yeah. And yeah, I would say refinancing is trickier is trickier to do for sure.
Scott Dillingham:Yep. Another strategy that I see some people buying or doing sorry is the parents will buy the house with the child and even though it is going to be a student rental because the child is living there, I've seen lenders totally okay with it like major banks.
Gillian Irving:Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Dillingham:Because it's owner off.
Gillian Irving:And I think it's such a great investment for parents to do that for their kid. Yeah. Just for that child one to have the experience of being like the landlord, being responsible for helping with collecting a little bit of the rent. Yeah, it's an excellent exercise. And you're right, that owner occupied angle is definitely something that can help a file for sure.
Scott Dillingham:For sure. The other thing I want to clarify too is the lenders didn't just tighten up student rentals. They got rid of all of their auxiliary programs, but just any auxiliary programs and they stock to their core. That's what they started during COVID because they were scared that there was going to be a huge follow-up in the economy and the market and everyone was going lose their jobs or whatever. It didn't turn out as bad as they thought.
Scott Dillingham:But now I'm starting to see the lenders start to slowly add back in these special programs that they took away pre COVID. So I'm excited for that because that could mean really good news for student rental financing because then if you can get more of the major players to come back in then obviously it's smaller down payments, better rates, all that good stuff. I think there's an exciting outlook in the near future.
Gillian Irving:Yeah. Which is cool.
Scott Dillingham:So cool. Now, I'm really curious because you told me that you have a special investing strategy that you're looking into. You didn't give me much details. This is, I don't know what I'm in for here, but what is it?
Gillian Irving:Still early days. But together with some other investors, I'm exploring this four season cottage rental business. So it's buying a property that has four seasons worth of activity. So not just a lakefront cottage that you could rent in the summertime, but something that also has a robust winter economy. So like downhill skiing or snowmobiling, ice fishing, something like that.
Gillian Irving:So that you can really, in your mind, imagine a complete four season reasons to go there for every month of the year. So we're going to do that and enhance that with extra advertising and just a whole new sort of Facebook strategy as well too to channel our potential tenants or our cottage. So I'm really looking forward to that. Yeah. I love it.
Scott Dillingham:And the fact that you said four season two, that's so much easier. There's so many more lenders that'll do four season cottages.
Gillian Irving:Yeah.
Scott Dillingham:And if it was a three season.
Gillian Irving:Yeah. And some people have come up to me and they've said, well, why on earth would you and these partners want to buy an expensive cottage now? What about the recession? And I agree. Everyone's feeling nervous about what's coming down the pipe.
Gillian Irving:But personally, I think that there's going to be less travel abroad for a while. People are going to tighten up their belts a little bit. And the cottages that we're looking at are big enough to host two families. So it actually would be a really smart way to market to families who wanna join forces with another family and make it a, like, really affordable, Ontario bound vacation. These big queries about are you scared about the recession?
Gillian Irving:Actually not. I'm trying to tailor this new strategy with that actually in mind so that it can survive recession. So it's recession proof. I'm hoping, I'm thinking.
Scott Dillingham:It's smart, right? So say you have a family and you could go to Disneyland, right? What is that going to cost you? Okay, it's probably costing you a lot. We're in a recession.
Scott Dillingham:Let's go somewhere else where we can have fun with the family. And they're going to look at stuff like that. I would, right? If I was in that scenario and money's tight, but you want to go somewhere and do something. I think it's great.
Scott Dillingham:Love it. That's so smart.
Gillian Irving:So stay local and you can partner up with another family as well and save some money that way. So despite the fact that the weekly rents will be expensive, it's shared, So great for us as investors and then great for families too to find value in their vacations.
Scott Dillingham:Yep, now I know a couple of my clients they'll buy in Northern Ontario near The US border, like closer to Quebec. I don't know if that's where you're looking, but they actually market to Americans and come over here because the dollar is so much greater. So it's actually a little cheap vacation for them.
Gillian Irving:Yeah, this is it. I don't know if
Scott Dillingham:yours are near the border, but
Gillian Irving:No, they're a little bit further. They're further north. But still, I still think that our advertising campaign, which we haven't really completely refined yet, I think we'll definitely be targeting Americans with their super strong dollar.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah, exactly. Why not? No, that's super cool. So I love now just about the mortgage part, right? Because you're the team here.
Scott Dillingham:What are some things that you've seen or you have done for investors to help them to scale and grow? Because I think that's super important in this time age. Most of my clients that come in to me say, we're stuck. How do we get unstuck? So we're actually making a course about that to show them.
Scott Dillingham:What do you find? What are some cool things that you've seen or have done to help an investor really scale?
Gillian Irving:That's the joy of being at Lens City, right? Is that the team there and especially under your guidance, Scott, is that you're so experienced in helping look, like, not this purchase, but how does this purchase impact the next purchase impact the next purchase? It's like being able to zoom out a little bit and try to examine not just where they are, but where they're trying to go and to set up the foundation of lenders so that they can scale with that in mind. So there's different lenders who will allow you obviously to get more rental properties than others. And so we try to just stack it so that you've got the lenders that allow you the biggest breadth of ownership at the best rates.
Gillian Irving:And you start there, then you add on top, add on top. And then when people get stuck and hit the wall, we have our commercial team. So I think most investors have no clue that commercial lending is even available to them as residential investors. And so I love it when I can take someone who feels like they've hit a financing wall and have been told they've hit a financing wall at other brokerage's and then finding out from us that we have this whole team in place that can help them continue indefinitely. Really, it can go on forever, rinse and repeat commercially.
Gillian Irving:You know, it's really just about pulling back the curtain and showing them options that might not ever have been presented to them before. That feels really great.
Scott Dillingham:It's super cool. And the other thing too, that people don't realize as a buyer, you would never know this. Being in the mortgage broker space, we know this. As a mortgage agent or mortgage broker, you have to do so much volume with a specific lender to gain access to them. So if you don't do the volume with them, then you don't have access to them.
Scott Dillingham:So you're kind of lenders form around the type of clients that you have. And because we work with investors, that's our main clients. We have those lenders and I know we had, it was actually your file and we were reviewing it. And the initial thought was B lender because of the debt ratios. I'm not going to say the client or the lenders name, but I'm like, look, let's run their rental worksheet and let's see if we can make this work.
Scott Dillingham:And we made the numbers work on the A side. So this client had they been to somewhere else, they would have went with the lender fees. Yep. And then we ran the numbers and it's all good. So the guys working on the down payment and stuff, but super cool, like just the different options.
Scott Dillingham:Like we save this guy lots of money just by coming up with that option. It's really neat to see that. So no, that's cool. Now, as far as you, do you mind letting people know like your location and that type of thing? If they are looking for investment property mortgages or to meet up and chat with fellow investors, Where can I assist?
Gillian Irving:I'm the satellite office for Lens City. Lens City's Windsor. I'm Lens City Toronto. I'm the loan agent here in Toronto. Obviously, we're super well connected anyway through Zoom and through, like, all the team outreach stuff.
Gillian Irving:But really, I'm here in Toronto, so I'm available to meet investors here. Or I I go to Hamilton a lot for my own properties, Peterborough for my properties. I'm really available anywhere around here.
Scott Dillingham:Nice, that's awesome. So somebody to this, they love your story, they want to work with you and get their mortgage with you. How will they contact you?
Gillian Irving:They can reach me through LensCity. So it's gillianlenscity. CA, or they can just or they can phone me anytime too. Should I give my phone number? I can give my phone number too.
Gillian Irving:(647) 404-7271. I'm always available to chat all things real estate investing, all things mortgages. Yeah.
Scott Dillingham:Would you just I'm just throwing this out there. I don't know the answer. But would you be open to, like, joint venture partnerships if people came along and they had money and stuff and they wanted your expertise? Would you look at that type of thing?
Gillian Irving:I do that anyway. I'm pretty selective who I want to work with. My sort of model for joint venture partnering is to establish really deep relationships. So I'd rather work with a smaller group of investors and go deep rather than many and go wide. But I'm always open to talking to people who wanna see if it's a good fit because, yeah, I'm looking all the time.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. You never know. That's awesome. Cool. Cool.
Scott Dillingham:I just wanted to ask because you never know it. I know people all over Canada listen to this. So it's pretty cool.
Gillian Irving:Looking for the right partner.
Scott Dillingham:Yep, perfect. I'm so glad we've got to wrap up for now, but I'm so glad you can join us today, Jillian.
Gillian Irving:Thanks so much
Scott Dillingham:It's really great to See you face to face too because running the Toronto satellite office, we don't see each other that much.
Gillian Irving:Yeah, it's
Scott Dillingham:good to see her, but awesome. Yep, so we'll put your email and the phone number in the description below so if anybody wants to reach out to Jillian you're looking for some investment mortgage advice or maybe partnerships that type of thing Jillian will be your go to and thanks for coming Jillian!
Gillian Irving:Thanks Scott appreciate it!
Scott Dillingham:No problem!