Scott Dillingham: 00:21

Welcome to the Wisdom Lifestyle Money Show. I'm your host, Scott Dillingham. Today, I have a very important guest that you're gonna love meeting. His name is Mike Peters. He runs our commercial mortgage division here at Lend City Mortgages.

Scott Dillingham: 00:32

Welcome, Mike.

Mike Peters: 00:33

Welcome, Scott. Pleased to be here. It's about time that, we were able to find that time we've been so busy with commercial mortgages.

Scott Dillingham: 00:39

Yes. I'm so glad that you're here, and I know our show is mostly based on foreign investors. But one of the things that we always do, before we kind of dive into the nitty gritty is we go over your upbringing and how you got to from a child to here. That's it.

Mike Peters: 00:58

I'm a born and raised Windsor South Windsor boy. Went to Massey High School. Had a great childhood. Lots of friends. My dad was a very successful businessman, and so we didn't really want for anything.

Mike Peters: 01:12

Took me a while to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I always had a keen interest on why things were placed where they are. For example, why is that Tim Hortons there versus there? How many pizza parlors can you have on a block? And so I ended up going to, University of Waterloo.

Mike Peters: 01:32

I took urban planning at University of Windsor first.

Scott Dillingham: 01:34

Okay.

Mike Peters: 01:35

And then then I decided to work for a while at Chrysler's on the line. I've held several jobs before I finally got serious about school. Got into the University of Waterloo as an adult student and got my master's degree in economic development. Okay. That took 5 years.

Mike Peters: 01:53

Came back to the city of Windsor because of my love for the city of Windsor. I was the youngest certified economic developer in Canada. I was the only one to hold both a master's degree and certification, and I was highly recruited across the country. But, I came back to Windsor and, immediately was part of what was called Prosperity 2000. And this was a collaborative of about 300 community leaders during a recession where we knew we had to come up with a strategy because of how strongly we were tied to the automotive industry.

Mike Peters: 02:29

And it was basically a diversification strategy that a lot of the strategies that you're seeing come to fruition today. The foundation is back in those days. It was a real exciting initiative to be a part of. But one of the things I found frustrating being in municipal government is just it moves like a tortoise. Yeah.

Mike Peters: 02:53

Super slow. Yeah. We, you know, we hear that about guys right now trying to get, permits for various types of constructions, these, 3rd houses, the gentrification, that kind of thing that are real important to our city. So so I just couldn't take the slow pace. So I wrote an economic development strategy for Union Gas.

Scott Dillingham: 03:14

Okay.

Mike Peters: 03:15

Sent it to the president of Union Gas, and within a week here, I'm sitting with the vice president of marketing, and he says, come to Union Gas and set this up. Because I saw where in the US, the utilities were heavily involved in promoting regions. Everybody's competing for the same dollars. Right? It all boils down to you don't wanna trade local dollars.

Mike Peters: 03:34

You wanna bring in new dollars if your local economy is going to, grow and expand.

Scott Dillingham: 03:41

K.

Mike Peters: 03:42

We were, for too long, just trading dollars in Windsor. You know, automotive guys' income was going to the grocery store and other things, buying new cars, but it all stayed local. So if you're gonna grow the economy, it's about promoting yourself outside the region. I worked at Union Gas. That was during a period of a lot of acquisitions.

Mike Peters: 04:04

We purchased Sentra Gas, and and I ended up with 815 municipalities and a budget of about half a $1,000,000. And difficult to figure out, do you give it to the Stratford Festival? Do you give money to the new arena and put your name on it? What do you do? There was a lot of hospitality suites and entertaining a lot of politicians.

Mike Peters: 04:29

I went to all the annual conferences. I was AMO. You name them. Small municipalities, large municipalities, and just really got a good feel for the bigger province and each of their unique niches. One of one of the groups I was with was the Canadian Council For Public Private Partnerships

Scott Dillingham: 04:48

Okay.

Mike Peters: 04:48

Which was a really neat organization. It was high level executives. In each quarter, we would travel to a different jurisdiction in Canada, taste the flavor of Halifax. We went to Saskatoon and ate bison, saw the cliff where the native indigenous people would run the buffalos off the cliff. But I got to hear what CIBC was doing in their local communities.

Mike Peters: 05:11

And we went to one small mining town that had lost the mine, and the individual owned it, basically owned the town, he was one of the first to do the murals. And the whole town went from mining to tourism just like that because of one strong individual. And so I brought that concept to Essex. Town of Essex was the first to adopt it, and murals all over the town of Essex. I then again became disgruntled with the slow pace of basically, as a monopoly.

Mike Peters: 05:45

So I went from bureaucracy to monopoly. My background in economic development, I did some cartography, and I also designed the marketing strategy for this region, which required that I get in an airplane and take pictures of industrial parks. And I'd fly over golf courses, and I go, you know what? I wanna get into the golf course mapping business. Mhmm.

Mike Peters: 06:06

And so that's what I did. I actually quit Union Gas and started a golf course mapping business mainly in Florida. I had partnerships with all of the senior architects, the big name people, etcetera. And then September 11th hit, couldn't put any planes in the air. And I had about $1,000,000 worth of contracts.

Mike Peters: 06:26

So got into homeland security mapping, targets for potential terrorists, such as amusement parks, government campuses, university campuses. And then I got into fleet tracking. I got into equipment tracking. I've just been an entrepreneur ever since and that's basically since 1999. Then I found that a lot so I have a personal desire to assist business, which goes back to my economic development days.

Mike Peters: 06:54

We're trying to diversify, like, getting the plastics companies that are making taillights to potentially make Halloween baskets, you know, or anything out of plastic, toboggans, etcetera. And so I was successful at that, and I enjoyed that. But I had the entrepreneur flavor in my genes from day 1. Partnered with an engineering firm. We were looking at, remote monitoring of water wells.

Mike Peters: 07:21

There's 800 water wells in in Ontario that there aren't being monitored. Contamination is an issue. And one of our customers wanted some financing, so I got into business finance and represented a company out of Toronto. They knew because of my background being as diverse as it was, an entrepreneur, my master's degree, and all my other experiences that and my relationships in the province that that I'd be a good candidate to represent them. One of the first things I did was go to the local, incubators, accelerators, etcetera, and see if there's any small companies that needed some assistance in finding financing to grow their business.

Mike Peters: 08:03

And as a result of that, I I was invited to work with the accelerator to try to figure out some things to get them growing and expanding. And one of the things that we determine is that they should probably get a consolidation mortgage, and that's how I met mister Scott Dillingham. That's right. You were able to obtain a mortgage based on a site visit and COVID hit.

Scott Dillingham: 08:27

Yep.

Mike Peters: 08:28

So things kinda slowed down for myself, and I assist I did some home renovations. And now that things have picked up, I I am rocking and rolling in the commercial mortgage space. I've got I've got a good team. I wanna grow the team. I would like a new agent in the Maritimes and one in Western Canada.

Mike Peters: 08:49

It's it's complex. It's shifting constantly. We were doing all kinds of refinances on duplexes. Now I'm moving into plaza. The loan to values are changing.

Mike Peters: 09:03

The whole dynamics, Every week is different, and it's keeping me on my toes, and I just love it.

Scott Dillingham: 09:09

That's good. That's good. And for an investor listening, he said duplexes. And so somebody might be like, what? You don't get a commercial mortgage on a duplex, but you do.

Scott Dillingham: 09:19

So could you elaborate why someone who who maybe is declined from their bank on the residential side, who wants to buy a duplex, how going to you through commercial, how that changes things?

Mike Peters: 09:32

Yeah. First of all, one of the reasons they may have been declined by the bank is that they're personally at their limit. Right? And that's that's the main reason or that their income went down during COVID. Could be a number of reasons why they got declined at the bank.

Mike Peters: 09:46

The first of 4 first thing that a bank will look at on the commercial side of the thing on a commercial mortgage is the income generating capabilities of the property. It's property first and foremost. It's the appraisal. It's the rent roll against the expenses. And the big banks are looking for about a dollar 30 in income for every dollar in expenses.

Mike Peters: 10:07

Credit unions are a little more lenient and even a little better higher loan to value. So they look at that first is that whole property's financial situation, and then they'll back it up with a personal net worth statement. It doesn't have to be all that strong a personal net worth statement. It just has to basically say that this duplex, if somebody was to leave today, walk out on their lease, can that mortgage be covered for 1 or 2 months until it's back on the market? And so I highly recommend that it's done on the commercial side because it then, again, removes some of the stuff on your personal side and allows you, as you move forward, to buy a bigger primary residence because it's not all tied to your personal net worth.

Scott Dillingham: 10:56

I love it. So just to recap, because I understand your terms, but maybe somebody this is all new to them. And before I actually reiterate that, just to confirm though, would you say because I tell people it's, like, 90 to 95 percent about the property in commercial and maybe 5 to 10% about the borrower. Would you say that's accurate?

Mike Peters: 11:16

Yeah. I'd say that was accurate till about 2 weeks ago, and I'd say she's about 80 20 now.

Scott Dillingham: 11:22

80 20? Okay. Yep. Good for me to know.

Mike Peters: 11:24

Yeah. Because just because of the they are evaluating the commercial properties a little more stringently today than they were a couple.

Scott Dillingham: 11:33

And they're doing that on the residential side too. But just to go back to recapping. So pretty much what Mike is saying is, say, your bank does say, no. You're at your debt ratio limits, you can't afford anymore, or like you said, your income went down from COVID. On commercial, maybe 20% of your application now is based on your income and the other 80 is the property and what it generates and what it can do.

Scott Dillingham: 11:56

So I have seen Mike actually get clients who on the residential side, we couldn't help them. We could get them a private mortgage, but then through commercial, Mike was able to move forward. When I knew and I actually knew about these opportunities before starting the commercial division or having Mike start it, but the idea to start it. And, I knew that this was an avenue for investors to really grow and expand their portfolio that other, you know, brokers or agents or people were not looking at. Because if you look around, very few people actually have a commercial team in how where we do.

Scott Dillingham: 12:31

So it's really cool. So I think that summarizes that. But, could you talk maybe a little bit more about so the lenders are tightening up. We do know this. Right?

Scott Dillingham: 12:39

Because the market's cooling. We're at the end of 2022 pretty much by the time we're recording this. What are you seeing in the marketplace so that the investors can be aware of this and maybe strategize a little bit better?

Mike Peters: 12:53

One of the new things that I'm seeing is fair market rents. Now one of the one of the issues that that just has happened recently and why less duplexes are getting refinances, everybody thought that, wow, my property just almost doubled in value, and that I'm gonna be able to take out half of the value of the property. It's all about what the rents will support. And so there was some confusion amongst clients in in that area. The best scenario or the best avenue is actually a vacant property and going in there and doing some renovations.

Mike Peters: 13:28

So you get a short term private loan or short term variable. Some of the lenders are doing or short term fixed. Some of the lenders are doing that with money for renovating, on the condition that without a penalty for breaking the mortgage, as soon as the property's done and it's re reappraised, then it goes to a conventional mortgage. So I'm seeing more of that. The rate's slightly higher than a regular fixed 1 year rate because you don't have to pay the penalty.

Mike Peters: 13:56

When you're done, you re you reappraise, refinance, and you're in business. Now you can set fair market rents

Scott Dillingham: 14:03

k.

Mike Peters: 14:04

Versus legacy rents. That has been a that's been a tough thing is that the rents have not gone up to support the new mortgage amount if somebody's trying to take some money out. What I do find is that the more units in a residential commercial property, the higher loan to value you're gonna get. For example, if you purchase a condo, you've got one tenant, that tenant leaves, then you've got a couple months of repositioning the condo. Whereas you if you have a duplex, then you've got that other lease to continue to support, so it's less on you personal.

Mike Peters: 14:38

You get to a 4plex. Each one of those stages, the loan to value increases.

Scott Dillingham: 14:43

Okay.

Mike Peters: 14:44

So that's something to consider. And those properties are are Windsor had an abundance of them Yeah. Until they got a lot of them got consumed or over the last with the rates the way that they were. So I I really think that these programs that the banks are adjusting. I mean, you know, they're adjusting and they're I'm just seeing this stuff change every day.

Mike Peters: 15:10

And for example, I have a client that's buying a unique property, has plans for it, has limited down payment, but the bank is prepared to work with that client and give him a short term higher interest rate, 7.7%. Yeah. Higher interest rate to get the work done, enough money to get the work done, reposition the property, and then refinance it without a penalty. So that's one of the areas I see things moving. And that is also not just commercial or residential.

Mike Peters: 15:43

That's happening with plazas because plazas were devastated. Right? Or you have still have so many empty storefronts. They're looking at that. If the investor is willing to take some of the proceeds, upgrade the facility, because a lot of these plazas are somewhat older, and then get it back on reposition that property.

Mike Peters: 16:01

The banks are with them.

Scott Dillingham: 16:02

Okay. The

Mike Peters: 16:03

banks are

Scott Dillingham: 16:03

with them. No. That's cool. Now without saying the business name or the exact property, can you go over, like, the different class of properties, like retail, apartment buildings? Could you touch on some of the stuff that we do in the commercial division?

Mike Peters: 16:19

We've, we've done just about every well, we've gone to the goal line on a $12,000,000 industrial complex. We've, we've done in industrial where it's the office up front and the small manufacturing in the back. That's like a tool and die startup or a fixture engaged startup that that falls pretty heavily on the business itself. You need 2 years taxes.

Scott Dillingham: 16:48

Okay.

Mike Peters: 16:49

One of the other things I wanna mention before I go there, though, on the commercial residential is that if you set up a hold company, a holdco to to make these next purchases, your commercial purchases, it will fall on you personally, your PNW, to support that new holdco. But after 2 years, the holdco has generated enough revenue, and you acquire properties under the whole coast. So there's some advantages to that.

Scott Dillingham: 17:17

Nice.

Mike Peters: 17:18

So that's what we're seeing, a lot of right now with these smaller I call them commercial condos where you're living up front, but that's the operation. That's the business. You're working up front. You're manufacturing in the back. And so you even may have 2 tenants, 2 somebody in the back and somebody in the front, and you put that in the whole co again, it's the strength of the lease.

Mike Peters: 17:44

So we're seeing more of those. Now on the plaza side, if there's an anchor tenant, the property is usually very favorably seen in the bank size versus a bunch of what I would call boutique

Scott Dillingham: 17:59

type like mom and pop type stores. Right.

Mike Peters: 18:02

So you wanna try to find an acre. It's like Devonshire Mall. You got Sears, you got the Bay. That's the concept of

Scott Dillingham: 18:09

Although Sears is a bad example.

Mike Peters: 18:11

Yeah. No. No. Is base still there? I haven't been in the The

Scott Dillingham: 18:15

base still there. Yeah.

Mike Peters: 18:16

Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah. That's a bad example, but that was the same concept that we wanted here in the city.

Scott Dillingham: 18:21

Yeah. The concept applies for sure. You want a big king

Mike Peters: 18:24

Casino there, a convention center there, another recreation center there

Scott Dillingham: 18:28

Yep.

Mike Peters: 18:28

Draws people within the corridor. So we are seeing a lot more, retail plazas.

Scott Dillingham: 18:35

Okay.

Mike Peters: 18:36

We have had a couple of recent deals that are multiunit apartment buildings. In those instances, we've had fair market rents, let's say 17.50 for a 2 bedroom apartment, but then you got the legacy rents and at $750 for the same unit that somebody's paying 750. So the loan to values on those, that's a deeper pocket type investment. 50%, 50 to 60% loan to value on those types of years.

Scott Dillingham: 19:06

If it has older a lot of older tenants.

Mike Peters: 19:08

Yeah. Legacy leases.

Scott Dillingham: 19:10

But we work with investors to turn those over because sometimes investors turn over those properties. They renovate them whatever, re rent them for higher amounts, and then they come back and they get really good, like, CMHC financing.

Mike Peters: 19:22

Yeah. It they get that, plus they get reimbursed the renovation costs if, if it's Yeah. Significant enough piece of property that there's multiple units. CMHC changes the rules pretty frequently. CMHC originates.

Mike Peters: 19:39

You can probably say better than me because you're more residential, but helping the first time home buyer, etcetera. What their goal is is in the multi tenant residential commercial space is affordability. Okay. To continue to maintain a base of inventory of single and and 2 bedroom units that are affordable. That makes sense.

Scott Dillingham: 20:03

It's a Crown Corporation.

Mike Peters: 20:04

Yep. So if you're willing to reduce your energy footprint, if you're willing to have your base rents about 80% below market rent across 80% of your building, etcetera, they've got some programs where they'll give you a 100% financing. But you gotta maintain that for 10 years. So if somebody's looking for a long term investment in a building that they really like and they feel it in 10 year. You know?

Mike Peters: 20:31

Like, my kids can inherit it or whoever Yeah. Then CMHC is there to help. Okay. But their goal is to keep people off the streets in affordable housing, you know, under market rents. And so we've sent a number of deals to them recently, and, they just haven't quite fit because a lot of investors don't wanna wait that 10 years

Scott Dillingham: 20:55

Yeah.

Mike Peters: 20:55

To that that clause in the contract.

Scott Dillingham: 20:59

Yeah. Which makes sense. Everybody has different goals when they invest. So that's, it differs for sure. So I know we talked about just the different options and stuff.

Scott Dillingham: 21:10

I know some of our lenders, and again, not saying any lenders names, but some of the cool things that I've discovered is on your commercial side, some we don't have stress tests anymore. Is that right?

Mike Peters: 21:20

Yeah. Really. I used to painful. Yeah. I I used to, for every lender, have to write, do out a calculation, which is debt coverage ratio, which is is the stress test.

Mike Peters: 21:32

And they're not asking for that anymore. They're just asking for the file. And and, actually, they're doing it on their own, and and the test is is not as stringent as it was. Okay. Yeah.

Mike Peters: 21:45

I'm pleased not to have to actually do that. They're taking that upon themselves because it used to be that I would run the stress test, and it would consistent across all lenders that I may introduce a deal to. And one of the things that I will mention that's different, I don't shop lenders. I send a deal to 1 lender, and that lender reviews the deal and has the right of first refusal before I'll pass it on to another lender. Because in the commercial space, it's lender relationship based, and I've worked as hard at that, establishing those relationships with lenders as I I have trying to get deals done.

Mike Peters: 22:23

Because if if you can if I can get a lender like, I've got a a real tight line deal that, commercial, again, takes 45 to 60 days usually. Yeah. And when when I see a deal that I personally in my heart, I wanna get it done, I know that I can call a lender that will look at it within hours of me calling him. And so that's really important.

Scott Dillingham: 22:48

I would say too, just to add to this, is you do try to research and see the lender that will approve it, but also give the client the best rate. You're not just going to someone who's got a high rate. You you know exactly what the lender can and cannot do, and you're going to them the first time. Because I agree. There's no reason to send it to 50 lenders when you know only 2 will do it.

Scott Dillingham: 23:08

Yeah. And one's a low rate and one's a high rate. So of course, you're gonna send it a low rate one.

Mike Peters: 23:12

And they know the if a deal's being shot. Then so that's what part of our letter of engagement that we have with each client is we engage the client, and we would like them to list who has seen the deal

Scott Dillingham: 23:24

k.

Mike Peters: 23:24

So that we don't send it. If it's been declined by a lender and they're now coming to us, I'm not gonna send it to the same lender. And, yeah, because they don't like it if the deal has been the commercial deal has been widely shot. Yeah. Because they can see if the credit got pulled a week ago from because they're looking at someone's PNW to support a deal.

Mike Peters: 23:49

And they pull the credit, and then this guy goes some post credit because, Mike, this was just pulled yesterday. What are you sending me? So so it's important that our clients are upfront about who they have dealt with in the past. K. But the thing about us, Scott, and I know you know this, is that a lot of our commercial clients have a long established relationship with an institution.

Mike Peters: 24:12

I'm finding this, I won't mention the client, but in Kenora, for example, guy's been working with the big five forever. As their policies change and don't fit the needs of the client anymore. I mean, you can have a massive portfolio with a big institution. We're starting to see a lot of those come our way, and and, you know, they just they want something different. They want something that that fits their needs and their ability to grow because a lot of the big banks won't let them grow beyond a certain threshold.

Scott Dillingham: 24:41

Okay. So

Mike Peters: 24:42

it's seeing quite a bit of that.

Scott Dillingham: 24:43

And speaking of thresholds, let's say I wanna buy a bunch of investment properties, and I've decided commercial is the best way to go or maybe I'm actually looking at commercial properties not just to have the commercial guidelines. Is there a cap to how many rental properties you guys can do on the commercial side?

Mike Peters: 25:00

Nope. There's no cap. Now some of our lenders. So we deal with the front frontline deal assessor at the institution, establish that relationship. They have caps.

Mike Peters: 25:13

So for example, if one of our clients wants a blanket across 8 properties, that could put it at a $5,000,000 total blanket. Whereas our frontline individual has the ability to approve a mortgage on their own, send it to adjudication or credit department at anything under a10000002. Okay? So if it goes up the ladder, higher rate, less loan to value. Okay.

Mike Peters: 25:39

So in that instance, it's one at a time. So some of our lenders have our frontline people have certain amounts they can approve. And as I say, if it is a 5,000,000 deal and it's over their limit, it tends to go up to the next level executive. And I'm finding that when it gets there, the rate is higher and the loan to value is

Scott Dillingham: 26:01

Yeah. They're tougher. Management is always tougher. Yeah. Especially when it's a big deal.

Mike Peters: 26:03

Yeah. So Yeah. It it's a staged strategy I would recommend. For most investors, we're doing a refi right now on numerous properties, and 2 are getting in at a time because they fall within under the 1,200,000 that this per this person can approve.

Scott Dillingham: 26:24

Okay. Cool. No. It's interesting to see, but, no. Cool.

Scott Dillingham: 26:28

So there's no caps, which is great. So that's another way if if somebody is not that they're maxed out on the residential side because there are options we can still do for investors, but sometimes the options become too costly, and they don't make financial sense. So we'll often refer them over to you guys as well because it's best for the client. So no that's really cool and you mentioned the team that you have a team already. I know there's 3 of you, and you're looking to expand.

Scott Dillingham: 26:56

So you're looking for 2 more, you said?

Mike Peters: 26:58

Yeah. I'd love work because of, your marketing engine, sir. I'm getting deals. I just got mobile home parks in British Columbia. I'm getting deals all over the country.

Mike Peters: 27:12

And so, yes, I'd be looking for an experienced residential person in either one of those areas that are thinking that they might wanna become full time commercial.

Scott Dillingham: 27:21

Okay.

Mike Peters: 27:21

So I haven't really started to put the feelers out.

Scott Dillingham: 27:24

Okay.

Mike Peters: 27:25

But we'll be doing so soon because we do have enough deals throughout the country to to start to spread some some of them around. That's awesome.

Scott Dillingham: 27:35

That's cool. And I have some big things planned, so you guys are gonna be even busier.

Mike Peters: 27:39

I look forward to it. As I say, I've done a lot in in my life, but this keeps me it pulls everything, all my experiences together.

Scott Dillingham: 27:48

That's good.

Mike Peters: 27:49

And it's it's just so much fun. I get up in the morning and I go, oh, damn. That happened. And, like, that happened this morning. And it's like, how do we figure this one out?

Mike Peters: 27:59

Because each day is a challenge. Right? Each person's situation is unique.

Scott Dillingham: 28:04

Yep.

Mike Peters: 28:04

And and you have to move with the flow. I don't not being able to do a deal. But at with these rates changing, we we're getting discussion papers, but they gotta put the word out there that the rates are are not what they were. Yeah. So I'm I'm hopeful that it stabilizes and potentially in the Q3 next year.

Mike Peters: 28:28

Yeah. Maybe we start to see a little bit of drop, but the reality is that unit 3 weeks ago that you might have been able to take 200 grand out of, you can't right now.

Scott Dillingham: 28:39

Yeah. You take maybe I'm making a number up, but maybe it's 1.50 now or yeah. Because the rates went up.

Mike Peters: 28:44

Yep. Exactly.

Scott Dillingham: 28:45

Yeah. And that happens on the residential side too. Right? As the rates go up, the stress test increases, and it shrinks through.

Mike Peters: 28:50

The opportunity in that instance is as well as the property values are going down. So that 200 might have been able to buy the duplex 2 months ago, but the 150 will now.

Scott Dillingham: 29:01

Yep.

Mike Peters: 29:01

So it's a trade off.

Scott Dillingham: 29:02

Yep. I agree. Oh, that's awesome. So let's say you're listening to this, you're an investor, and you want to move forward with the commercial type of application or to speak with you about the options. How would they get in touch with you?

Mike Peters: 29:15

Well, there's several ways. You can email me directly at mike@lendcity.ca. You can call our our phone number here, and they can patch us through.

Scott Dillingham: 29:24

In our office line, it's 519-960-0370. And I know you're gonna help me. I know we're wrapping this up, but, we're we are working on, an investing course, and I look forward to having you be part of that from the commercial standpoint to show the natural flow and to help investors that are stuck with their financing that don't have those opt the course is gonna show them how to unlock that.

Mike Peters: 29:49

That is one of the things I'll say in closing is that I am spending 25 percent of my time coaching, and I love it. So if you are interested in investing in commercial properties, it just you're moving commercial because of what we just said about PNWs, etcetera, and so you're contemplating commercial. First thing to do is get in touch with us, and we create a file. I can tell immediately where it fits in terms of what kind of property that you might be able to acquire and grow your net worth. Like I can do that in a half hour,

Scott Dillingham: 30:23

which is incredible. And it's cool because a regular investor doesn't know this, but I guess it's not cool, but there's a flow of where you should apply for your mortgages first. And if you do that out of order, you limit the properties, you limit getting the best rates, the lowest fees, that type of thing. So there is a process. So if you're getting started, it's always best to work with an expert.

Scott Dillingham: 30:50

Where if you already have a portfolio, I'm often seeing I don't know if you see it, but I see it on the residential side. We're redoing most of their financing Yeah. Because it was set up incorrectly or just not for growth.

Mike Peters: 31:02

Yep.

Scott Dillingham: 31:02

And we're redoing it and making it for growth.

Mike Peters: 31:04

Yeah. And again, all those people that have significant portfolios with one institution and a long standing relationship, that institution is gonna wanna continue to keep your business, but it's not always in your best interest to stay with that institution because there's we see all the programs. They just see that one institution's programs. Yeah. And we've got the Bible on what's out there.

Scott Dillingham: 31:29

I agree. Also, thanks so much for coming on, Mike. It was a really good show. I loved having you. And, we'll see you guys next time.